Live From the Foxhole

The Foxhole Evangelist blog title is turning out to be prophetic. Not that I'm fighting against anybody, but I am wrestling against ideas. I am not out to defeat any person, only false ideas.

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. ~ Ephesians 6:12

After posting links to this blog on Twitter and Facebook, a lively debate is going on in the GOD group on Facebook. Thankfully, my opponents also seem to see this as a battle of ideas rather than a battle between people, and have been respectful rather than hateful. In this post I am responding to some of the objections raised to my introductory post. Anyone who wants to see the whole thread can go here.

The objections I address here deal with the justice of God punishing sinners in an eternal hell, and to the idea of free will.

I think you’re missing about eleven million steps of reasoning in between ‘doesn’t believe in the existence of one particular interpretation of one particular deity’ and ‘deserves to suffer for all eternity.’ ~ Andrew Magee

Jared, I second Andrew’s point about the gargantuan jump in reasoning between not believing in one ‘particular deity’ and deserving to suffer for all eternity.’ ~ Steve Curless

I would say that we know enough to choose God or not. God has given sufficient (but not exhaustive) revelation so that if we seek Him we can find Him. Revelation leads to knowledge, which leads faith and to God Himself, which leads to obedience. We are ultimately judged by whether we obeyed God or not. As the Creator and Designer of the universe, if God created humans for a particular purpose, and they fail to fulfill that purpose, then God is “just” or “right” or “correct” to deal with those that refuse His purposes by removing them from His presence and His perfect world (a new heavens and a new earth completely free of evil). Since they have chosen separation from him, they get what they want (or at least what they think they want).

Believe it or not, I think your objection has some merit. The typical evangelical view is that a minority of people will be saved who hear an evangelical Christian preaching from the Bible, and receive the gospel message by faith. I disagree with several points of this view. To begin with, nowhere does the Bible actually teach that justification is by faith alone and nowhere in the Bible does it say that correct doctrine can save anyone. I know this runs contrary to what most evangelical Christians believe, however James 2:19-26 makes it clear that justification is not by faith alone:

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, ‘Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness’—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Faith alone is not enough; even the demons believe in God. God judges us based on what we do, which is an indication of what we believe. Even Paul (who is normally credited with “salvation by faith alone”) agrees. In Romans 2:6-11 he wrote,  

He will render each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.

In every account of the judgment, people will be judged based on what they did or did not do (see Matthew 25 or Revelation 20:11-15 for examples). Rather than promoting salvation by faith apart from works, Paul taught that good works were the natural result of faith (though he vehemently denied works alone can save anyone). That is why he insisted that, “The righteous shall LIVE by faith,” not that they shall merely believe in Jesus, and therefore be saved. When Paul wrote of justification by faith, it was shorthand for faith leading to obedient good works (see Ephesians 2:8-10).

Paul emphasized faith as a prerequisite to the obedient works God requires. In essence, Paul was highlighting that works without faith are dead, and James was highlighting that faith without works are dead. Works can never earn God’s favor, but God certainly cares about what we do. In the case of the person who is justified by faith and works, works are the result of the transformation of God in the individual in response to faith. Christ in us is the hope of glory (Colossians 1:27). The fire of God burns within the believer, and the smoke of obedience naturally follows. God ultimately only accepts those who know Him and obey Him (see Matthew 7:21-23).

Moreover, I notice that you didn’t answer my question about what hell is like. But am I correct in assuming that you think it’s a horribly unpleasant place or condition and could justify this understanding with scripture? If so, please tell me how any culpably SANE soul would ‘choose’ to endure this horrible unpleasantness forever and ever and ever. And if it isn’t chosen, how is it NOT ‘forced’? ~ Steve Curless

Your assumption is correct, although I couldn’t say specifically how hell is a “horribly unpleasant place or condition.” The scriptures that describe hell seem to be symbolic, which makes sense because it is not accessible until after biological death and therefore cannot be anything we can know about exhaustively. Jesus describes hell in parables as a place of “outer darkness” (Matthew 8:12) and “eternal fire” (Matthew 18:8). Obviously, fire and darkness are mutually exclusive, and since He uses these descriptions in parables we can safely assume these descriptions are symbolic of torment beyond what we currently understand.

Which leads us right into your next objection that a sane soul would never choose such conditions. To clarify my position, of course I do not believe anyone would purposely choose eternal torment. They either choose to ignore or reject the revelation of God. None of us debating this topic on Facebook have an excuse. We have access to God’s revelation. Paul affirmed this in his letter to the Romans. Romans 1:18-20 says that,

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

He reiterates this in Romans 10:9-13,

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For the Scripture says, ‘Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.’ For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing riches on all who call on him. For ‘everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'

Unfortunately, most Christians are content to stop there. So far, Paul has preached that faith in Jesus is the exclusive path to salvation (keeping in mind that for Paul salvation by faith is shorthand for faith leading to good works). What about Native American tribes and other remote ethnic groups and people who never had a chance to hear the gospel message preached from the Bible by a Christian evangelist?

Paul continues in verses 14-17,

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, ‘How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!’ But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, ‘Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?' So faith comes through hearing and hearing through the word of Christ.

Unfortunately, most Christians stop to early at this verse, assume the “word of Christ” (or the “word of God” in the King James Version) must mean the Bible only. This would mean eternal damnation for anyone who does not have access to the Bible, since faith comes by hearing… the Bible alone. This interpretation is premature, and obviously conflicts with Paul’s words in chapter 1 that state that we have no excuse because God’s nature and attributes are plainly revealed in the material universe.

But pay attention to what Paul says in verses 18:

But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for ‘Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.'

Paul is alluding to Psalm 19, which says,

The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge. There is no speech, nor are there words, whose voice is not heard. Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.

“Their” refers to the sky (“heaven” in the context of Psalm 19 is synonymous with the natural sky, as opposed to the spiritual abode of God). The sun, the stars, the moon, and the clouds “reveal knowledge” and their voice “goes out through all the earth.” I am not referring to some mystical communication either. When we see the apparently designed natural world, the most obvious conclusion is that an intelligent agent created the universe (although I’ll leave it at that since it is an entirely different topic).

God has also revealed Himself by writing his eternal, transcendent moral law on our hearts. Although there is some disagreement on some moral standards due to the noetic affects of sin, most people generally agree as to what it is. Every human society believes that lying, stealing, murder, and so on, is immoral. Despite confusion about morality, we tend to know it better by our reactions than our actions. That is, sometimes we do something we think may be right but are not 100% certain, and we may question whether what we did was right. For example, after handing an apparently homeless bum a $5 bill, we may later read an article about people with nice homes who make their living panhandling and wonder whether we did the right thing. But if a homeless bum robs us of a $5 there is no doubt in our minds that the homeless bum did something immoral. Paul affirmed that the moral law is written on our hearts in Romans 2:12-16,

For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when the Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. The show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

So all sinners will be judged guilty for their actions, whether or not they had a Bible to tell them what was right or wrong, because the law is written on all our hearts.

In addition to general revelation and intuitive moral knowledge we have the Bible, but everyone has access to general revelation and moral knowledge and they are enough. As Leonard Ravenhill used to preach, “Sodom had no Bible.” They were judged based on what they did with the revelation they had access to. This is the same standard that all people will be judged according to. While I am not an inclusivist, I do believe salvation will be more inclusive than the typical evangelical Protestant vision of only a “righteous remnant” being saved while the majority of people go to hell. This view is generally based on Matthew 7:13-14,

Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

However, I think Luke’s more thorough record gives more hope. In Luke 13:23, someone asks Jesus directly, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” First Jesus says, “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able” (Luke 13:24). In verses 25-30 Jesus warns of a time in the future when “the master of the house” will “shut the door.” Once this happens, those left outside will plead, “‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’” The outsiders will say, “We ate and drank in your presence, and YOU TAUGHT IN OUR STREETS.” It seems to me that Jesus is speaking directly to and about the Jewish people at that particular time and place. In that case, He is not saying that only a few of mankind in general will be locked out, but only a few of His Jewish contemporaries living at that time, first century Roman occupied Palestine. “But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’” (there’s that emphasis on being judged according to our deeds again). He ends the parable in Luke by saying,

In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out. And people will come from the east and west, and from the north and south, and recline at table in the kingdom of God. And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.

Most of the Jewish people of Jesus’ own time rejected the gospel in spite of the fact that they had the greatest access to God’s revelation at that time. Such people will be judged accordingly. It was not a particular doctrine that they rejected, but God incarnate. Doctrine is important as a guide to God, but in and of itself it cannot save. Only God can save. You may have noticed that those included in the kingdom of God include the Patriarchs (who did not have a Bible) and people “from the east and west, and from the north and south” of national Israel. “Some who are last [Gentiles] will be first, and some who are first [Jews of Jesus’ time on earth] will be last.” In the visions of Revelation, John saw,

…a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in the hands, and crying out with a loud voice, ‘Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!’ ~ Revelation 7:9-10

Passages like this give me hope that the majority of people will be saved. Jesus doesn’t specifically address the question, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” Instead, He advises the people to “Strive to enter through the narrow door,” and that all sorts of people they thought could not be saved will come from the four corners of the globe to dine in the kingdom of God with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. John the Revelator sees a vast multitude that is impossible to count from every ethnic group God created. Romans 10:11, 13 says, “EVERYONE who believes in him will not be put to shame,” and “EVERYONE who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” While the Bible never specifies whether the majority of humanity will be saved or damned, passages like these give us hope that many, not few people will be saved.

So in conclusion, God has plainly revealed Himself in the natural universe, in our inborn knowledge of the moral law, and in the Bible. Some ignore God’s revelation, some actively reject it, and some receive it. The knowledge of God leads to faith and to God Himself, and we all have access to that knowledge in God’s revelation. Faith in Jesus leads to God and to holy living (although not perfectly sinless living in this world; however, Christians ought to become better people over time culminating in complete transformation at Christ’s return). Finally, God “will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.” How do we know who the real seekers are? “Seek, and you will find.”

The genuine seekers all find their way to Jesus. They either choose Him or not. To choose Him is to find Him, and to reject Him is to choose eternal separation from Him. No one actively chooses the eternal torment; that seems to be the natural consequence of eternal separation from God. They can know enough from provided revelation to choose God and avoid hell, but some reject God out of willful ignorance, and some reject God outright. To more directly address your objection, salvation will not depend on a “particular interpretation” but it will depend on a “particular deity.” It cannot help depending on a “particular deity,” because He is the only one who actually exists. Also, while the “particular interpretation” cannot save us, it might be a reliable indicator of whether we know the “particular deity” that exists in reality and saves sinners from just punishment, or are actually serving an usless idol.

God has plainly revealed Himself. Some suppress the truth about God by ignoring it or opposing it. Others trust in the revelation God has provided them and receive Him. Those people are transformed by God and obey Him. He judges all in the end based on whether they obeyed Him or rejected Him. He made humans with a particular purpose in mind. Just as an employer justly fires an employee who does not fulfill the purpose he was hired for, God justly casts those who refuse His purposes into a lake of fire. Just as a government justly punishes lawbreakers, God justly punishes lawbreakers. The difference is employers and governments are temporal and only deal out temporal punishment. God is eternal and deals out eternal punishment.

Jared, If a God created us then we would be robots to his will. There would be no actual ‘I,’ we’d simply act and decide by how each of us were individually manufactured. ~ Tim Anderson

Tim, if we’re just created by God as robotic automatons how would we ever know it? We couldn’t actually reason it out; reason requires freedom of thought. Strictly speaking, I cannot prove or disprove that we are robotic automatons, any more than I can prove or disprove that I am or am not actually just a brain in a vat of chemicals, or that we were created five minutes ago with all the apparent evidence of age and false memories of the past. I think your statement fails because it is an argument, and arguments presuppose the ability to think rationally. If you are right, then we cannot actually think rationally, so any argument that leads to the conclusion that we are mindless robots devoid of individual personality are the meaningless and inevitable results of our design if the conclusion is true. If the conclusion is not true, of course it is just plain wrong. To put a twist on Descartes, “I think therefore I am” probably not a robot. Consider this (if you aren’t a robot): If you are right and I am wrong, it makes no difference whatsoever—que sera, sera. If I am right and you are wrong, it makes all the difference in the world.